Really stupid or completely amazing idea

[-42-]

Originally Posted by carterink

you have way, way, way, too much tension on it. like i said, it barely needs any tension at all on it, and it affects it drastically. i've set my machines to about as low as they'll go and then applied the rubber band, and it doesn't weaken the strength of the machine, affect the duty cycle, or decrease the gap between front spring and contact screw as it's running. all it does is speed it up a good little bit.

Originally Posted by carterink

holy wow......front spring can do nothing to immitate this.

So what's so great about this then?? I don't mean to break balls, but all you've claimed this can do is speed the machine up. I'm no machine expert, but I know enough to call this retarded. A good set of springs can and will do the exact same thing. You asked if this is really stupid or a completely amazing idea. It seems you already believe it's amazing and are unwilling to believe otherwise. Now, I'll give you points for creativity, but that's really about as far is this can go.

[-42-]

btw...if you know anything about machines, you'd see where you contradicted yourself in the 2 quotes above.

[Frek]

Not in the industry yet and haven't even touched a machine and this post just doesn't make any sense at all to me..............

[carterink]

Originally Posted by -42-

btw...if you know anything about machines, you'd see where you contradicted yourself in the 2 quotes above.

your misreading it. and if you knew anything about machines you'd understand what i said. I was referring to your recommendation to swap out the front spring for a different one to get a similar more efficient effect. When in reality, changing the front spring, itself, in anyway will not get close to immitating this.

[sickradsean]

i guess i just dont understand how a rubber band can give no resistance on the downstroke and yet still stretch enough to pull the a bar back up. it seems that for it to create the stretch and tension there WOULD HAVE TO be some resistance on the downstroke. which in turn would mean that the machine would ahve to workj harder to pull down on that a bar.

[carterink]

and i'm not assuming it's amazing. i started this post to find someone with a vaster knowledge of machine tuning to help me understand this better, and possible figure out an application for it. So far though, all i've gotten are very off attempts to shut it down, without actually understanding it.

I'll get around to trying it out myself here soon and i'll post the results.

[carterink]

Originally Posted by sickradsean

i guess i just dont understand how a rubber band can give no resistance on the downstroke and yet still stretch enough to pull the a bar back up. it seems that for it to create the stretch and tension there WOULD HAVE TO be some resistance on the downstroke. which in turn would mean that the machine would ahve to workj harder to pull down on that a bar.

because it is so light of a pull, it does give a minor resistance to the downward pull, but compared to the strength of the coils it is unnoticeable, but when the coils turn off, it has no resistance, and is able to pull up and make a noticeable difference.
also because of it's forward placement, it has much much better leverage.

Just as an example....and these numbers are totally fictitious because i don't have the actual....but look at it like this

rubber band is giving .05 pounds of pressure

coils pull down at 5 pounds of pressure so the pulls is 100 against 1

but then the rear spring lifts back up say with maybe 2 pounds, but you have the rubberband at the end of the front spring (i.e. greater fulcrum point) which easily multiplies it by 4
(2/.05x4=.1) so you now have a 10% increase in lift.

any highschool physics stuff comin back to anyone??????????

[Joe]

I made a quote based on the Law of Physics and you said I was over simplifying. It's the Law of Physics, those are facts and this applies to everything, even tattooing.
Also, it would be a 100% duty cycle reading with a continuous circuit.

[carterink]

Originally Posted by Joe

I made a quote based on the Law of Physics and you said I was over simplifying. It's the Law of Physics, those are facts and this applies to everything, even tattooing.
Also, it would be a 100% duty cycle reading with a continuous circuit.

lol, you state it in a vague, but implicative way. i just gave you a break down, where it does give an equal and opposite reaction, but do to the multiple various factors, it in the end creates two completely opposite actions.

and i'll get back to you on the duty cycle. I was hesitant to put that, but i'm almost positive, when reading a tattoo machine, duty cycle reads % of time the spring is not connected to the contact screw......i.e. time the circuit is open. though this is contradictory to the definition of duty cycle when pertaining to electronics, which is the active period of a circuit. so i'll have to pull my references and get back to you.

[-42-]

Originally Posted by carterink

and i'm not assuming it's amazing. i started this post to find someone with a vaster knowledge of machine tuning to help me understand this better, and possible figure out an application for it. So far though, all i've gotten are very off attempts to shut it down, without actually understanding it.

I'll get around to trying it out myself here soon and i'll post the results.

then why won't you listen to anyone here???

Originally Posted by carterink

your misreading it. and if you knew anything about machines you'd understand what i said. I was referring to your recommendation to swap out the front spring for a different one to get a similar more efficient effect. When in reality, changing the front spring, itself, in anyway will not get close to immitating this.

dude, I just looked at the work on that link of yours, and I must say that you don't have the slightest clue as to what it takes to make a good machine. Sloppy ass work all over that site. I'm not trying to knock you, but that work does have a direct relation to your knowledge of machine tuning and maintenance. Perhaps you should sit and listen a bit more. You say you know machines, and have a few books on the subject, but the proof lies completely in the work that is being done with said knowledge. That work isn't applied well at all. Hell, aren't you the same guy who claimed a "sad, sad day for lucky supply"? You based that completely on the looks of the machine because you thought it looked cheap and chinese. It's a f@#king mike wilson and eric inksmith machine!!!!!!! That unto itself holds enough water to question your knowledge.
I understand what you have said, but it all leads to the same place. The machine goes faster.......on the upstroke. The fulcrum point is at the opposite end of the rear spring providing a different kind of tension. Got it. IS THERE ANYTHING I'M MISSING HERE??!!!! Still, this can all be done with proper knowledge of machine tuning and a good set of springs. Do you honestly think an idea of this nature has never been attempted before? With all of the great machine builders out there, I assure you many variations of this have been done. The reason why all of these builders do things the way they do is because it is far more practical and reliable to achieve these results with the current machine parts list.

Now, what do you do if that rubber band moves in the process of work?? It's obviously going to change the way the machine runs. Do you just plan to keep re-adjusting it?? What about when it runs out of elasticity? Change it out? What kind of set up to you plan on using this with? What needle combo, what application? What are the results at any given voltage? Does it need a certain amount of power to run properly? Is it erratic? IS THERE AN EASIER WAY TO ACHIEVE THESE RESULTS??? seems like a whole lot of excess stuff to worry about and very unreliable. I'm not trying to sand bag your idea. I'm simply asking questions that apply to the practicality of this idea. If I had stumbled upon this, I would ask myself these questions.

Now, please don't take any of this as an attack on you, because it's not. I usually wouldn't question your work, but it does apply to this topic, so please don't get upset about that. All in all, I dig the creativity, but when breaking this down there are faaarrr too many negatives. You can answer these questions if you'd like, but please be precise when you do. So far, all you've done is throw out a vague "you don't get it" response. You say you wanna learn more about machines..........well you've got 2 ears and 1 mouth, which means you should listen twice as much as you talk........